Chlorine dioxide gas production

Dec 2019
5
0
Seattle
Aloha. First post here.
My home madscience project is the production of chlorine dioxide gas for mold remediation. Naturally, I don't want to produce any chlorine gas as a byproduct. So I plan to start very small and safe (relatively so).

I have 99.5% pure sodium chlorite, in a granular solid. My plan is to make a solution with water, then add hydrochloric acid:
5NaClO2 + 4HCl = 4ClO2 + 5NaCl + 2H2O

Does that seems ok? Is this unlikely to produce any chlorine gas if things wrong? I have worked with concentrated HCi, and would prefer a safer alternative if possible.

Can anybody help with a reaction using hydrogen peroxide? Citric acid? Acetic acid?

Thanks
Mookie
 
Sep 2018
69
16
England
Looks like a bit of a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

Do not use concentrated HCl, the reaction would get too hot, likely boiling and spitting dangerously.

A quick glance at Wikipedia gave me this page <link> about chlorine dioxide.
One point it mentions is the high solubility of chlorine dioxide, so you would not get any gas from your reaction, just a solution.

I am sure that there are far better (and much safer) mold cures available...
 
Dec 2019
5
0
Seattle
Hi Woody
Thanks for your reply.

You are incorrect about the reaction. It produces a LOT of chlorine dioxide. Read it again- 4 moles of it. That reaction is pretty common in industrial production.

Also note about your statement on mold removal- Chlorine Dioxide is extensively used in mold remediation as a safer and less environmentally dangerous alternative to sodium hypochlorite (bleach), and less much harmful to home materials than ozone.

My question was about accidental chlorine gas production, and safer acids to get the desired gas product.

Commercial formulations often mix weaker acids such as citric. Sodium bisulfate is also used in a reaction that I don't fully understand.

Cheers
 
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Sep 2018
69
16
England
I was not saying it would not produce ClO2, just that the ClO2 would tend to dissolve in the solution
It may well be that the rate of production of gas would significantly exceed the rate of solution, so the issue would be moot.

The Wikipedia link includes some details of the reaction <here> which indicate a possible problem with production of appreciable levels of Chlorine.
The link indicates stability issues with ClO2.
ClO2 is also toxic.

I do note that the Wikipedia article points to the use of ClO2 in mold remediation
but this would have been done under strict health and safety restrictions.

I (personally) would not want to be messing with this reaction in a domestic environment.
If you do insist on going ahead with this, make sure you have made all the necessary suitable safety arrangements.
Try it first on a very small scale, in a well ventilated space (preferably even outdoors)
Wear safety gear, (particularly goggles)
I would prefer to have have someone else present (at a safe distance) who can phone emergency services if required.

I don't know what the reaction rate might be, or how exothermic,
but I would suspect that you would have to combine the reactants in dribbles to avoid a dangerous, boiling, fizzing, catastrophe.
This would make your gas generator difficult to construct and control.

I would worry that, by trying to save money by doing it yourself
you could be in danger of really messing things up, possibly creating problems even bigger that the current mold issues.
I would strenuously advise that this is a job for professionals
(at least you would be covered by their insurance if they messed anything up).
 
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Dec 2019
5
0
Seattle
Hi Woody- Thanks again for the thoughtful reply.

It is not often that I hear a phillisophy of doing things that is diametrically opposed to mine, so I appreciate the insight it gives me about how I think. A few years back I sailed across the Pacific Ocean from the USA to Asia. It would have been, maybe 1000 times cheaper to fly here, but yet I did it, while very challenging at times, the rewards where all good. Try something simple, like refinishing an antique table, and when you are done enjoy the accomplishment :)

* Chlorine Dioxide. I need to correct you again. Please read a little deeper and find chlorine dioxide gas generators are widely marketed to amateurs, and used in automotive and boat cleaning, and home odor removal. It's sold on Amazon, Ebay, and in many retail stores. The reaction they use is neither dangerous nor volatile. A packet containing Sodium Chlorite and Sodium Bisulfite is exposed to water (a small sponge wetted). It slowly reacts and produces a gas that fills the car and eliminates odors. Once done the car is aired out and driven away. Amazon has yet to be taken to court. Please see link. This reaction is not found on Wikipedia, but I hope a chemist like yourself soon will correct that.

A sample MSDS is pasted below.

Chlorine dioxide is not stable, but that seems a great benefit. It quickly oxidizes organic things then is gone, with less toxic byproducts than ozone or bleach. There is no phosphates to wash down the drain and cause algae blooms. True?

So anyhow I am very obviously not a chemist, just a hacker trying to understand the reaction a little better. I have become confident that I am on the right path, both in terms of safety, and mold spore killing, but happy to consider other opinions. Would be great if anybody has actually tried DIY gas production.

Happy new year
Mookie

1577372046025.png
 
Dec 2019
5
0
Seattle
What do you think Woody?

I think we got a winner: safe, effective, odor and spore killing gas. Clo2 for home users. Now I still want to know how it works.;) Please tell.


You put packet of solids in the tray, wet a small sponge, put tray on the seat of your car. Clo2 gas fills the car slowly. Also used in boats, closets, etc.


1577415172626.png

Is ClO2 safe?
Chlorine Dioxide is considered non-mutagenic, non-carcinogenic, and relatively non-irritating. Chlorine Dioxide doesn’t form hydrochloric acid when exposed to water like chlorine does, nor does it form carcinogenic chlorinated hydrocarbons as byproducts. However, NosGUARDSG is a very powerful treatment, so read and follow all safety warnings and procedures.
 
Sep 2018
69
16
England
My (fairly brief) chemistry days were decades ago, so I was basing my responses mainly on what I got from Wikipedia.

There are individuals about (often fairly obviously young) who will post questions regarding potentially extremely dangerous plans.
A lot of these individuals obviously have very little idea, having just seen something on You-Tube.
I often feel the best approach for such people might be to try to scare them off their potentially dangerous route,
or at least try to slow down their initial headlong enthusiasm.

In you first post I took you for such an individual, (especially with your talk about using concentrated HCl)
however you have obviously looked into this properly and found more controllable reactions.
 
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Dec 2019
5
0
Seattle
Thanks for the reply Woody

When you posted that the my HCl reaction does not produce gas, just a solution, it did lead me to suspect that you would not be the best advisor on this.

In my initial post I asked about safer alternatives; citric acid and hydrogen peroxide.

But thanks anyhow, I know you mean well with your safety advise.
 
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